Retatrutide, Elli Lilly and the Enhanced Games, with Max Marchione

Well seeing as I missed @Bonecondor's peptide soiree in NYC I figured I would at least follow it up with a niche podcast version with @maxmarchione.

We covered:
- Retatrutide 
- Elli Lilly
- Enhanced Games

Watch on X; listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

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Transcript

Me rambling by myself in my room

0:00

Okay, so before we get into this here now, I just need to say a few things. First of all, uh the first one's actually not gonna be an ad read. At least not yet, but you've got three of them to sit through. So best of fucking luck. And of course, as always, if you don't actually buy one of the products, you're dead to me. You're dead to me. This is actually how it works. No Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I'm just insulting my audience out of the gate. Uh, that is just how that works. But basically, 14th of June, my jazz recital is coming up. Really, really excited to be working with inference.net, WordPress, Matthew Behrman, and of course, Superpower. Of course, Max, you're gonna be hearing from him and I here in just a second here. But totally a dream come true. I get to play with some of the greatest musicians of my generation, some dear friends, and playing for friends and dear friends. Pretty good way to go, if I must say so myself. And the location is absolutely beautiful. Total panoramic views of City Hall and San Francisco. Capacity is extremely limited, so if you would like to come, please, please, please, please just reach out to me. I don't know if I'll open the floodgates to this particular event, but I you know the capacity is already filling up, and I would like to keep it to those closest to me and those that appreciate jazz music. Damn it, they should appreciate it. Okay, onto some ad reads here now. Capit.ai, your agentic IDE, of course, you can actually connect it to Slack and get non-technicals to make pull requests, right? Capu.ai, go ahead and use the uh agentic IDE. Zoe computer, of course. Gotta give a shout out to Zoe. I've been using Zoe uh in my text messages. Basically, MOT is a one-man project. I do everything myself, and so my inboxes, my iMessage, my C like like everything, everything becomes a bit of a mess, and Zoe has been helping me with that. Going to be hosting the MOTS website using Zoe as well. You can build personal apps and automations using Zoe. That's the beautiful thing about it. And of course, last but not least, but blackbox.ai. You can join over 30 million plus developers worldwide using Blackbox for their coding tasks. Of course, you can use the IDE. Excuse me, goodness gracious, I had a whole entire sandwich just before this, so I can't even keep it down during ad reads. Disrespectful. But basically, you can use the CLI, you can use the IDE, you can go ahead and spin up up to 15 agents at one particular time. Blackbox, of course, its mission is full self-coding. You can use features like Claudex, in which it enables you to use Codex for a particular task, and then in one workflow you can use Claude for another task, right? Maybe you use Codex to actually write the code, Claude to review, and you can actually set that up in one workflow using Blackbox. Does all of this stuff. Grateful for the mod sponsors, grateful for you if you've stuck around. Don't know why the fuck you would have. If you have stuck around, well, um, there may be something wrong with you. There may be something wrong with you. If you haven't skipped uh to the actual content by now, you're a psychopath. You're a psychopath. Anyway, gonna go ahead and jump into this here now. We can hear from Max and I, Max with

@maxmarchione intro

2:58

the Peptide update. You're listening to a special edition of Members of Technical Staff. Again, saying that every single time now, because every single episode of Members of Technical Staff is special, damn it. This guy's the new Harry Stevens. You're my favourite guest ever. Just drive by. Okay, well, we're already been cancelled by the British VCs. So that market's out, which is okay because uh the British don't probably listen to this anyway. Although we'll see. We'll see. We're still growing, we're still growing. Don't mean to talk my own book straight away, but that's how it is. Um basically, didn't even mention here with Max Marcioni. I mean, you're getting used to seeing him uh basically every month at this point, but it's perfect because there is just so many things that are happening when it comes to well, we can we can say looks maxing, we can say peptides, we can say, well, this time around, enhanced games, goodness gracious, uh, clinical trials, phase three. I'm hearing all of these different buzzwords, and it's kind of all just happened in the past week. So, as always, bring Max on, we can dissect some of this stuff, we can make sense of some of this stuff, we can get your thoughts on some of this stuff, we can get my uneducated thoughts on some of this stuff, because that is my right as a podcaster is to have takes and just say stuff like, I guess we'll see. Everyone's an expert now, man. You know, DeMarc Edge knows more than Jensen. Yeah. Of course, because he posts online. Of course. He reads the text. That's how this works. You actually can be an expert on everything as long as you read enough uh X.com posts about it. This is how this works. Um I think a cool place to start, and I think probably I would say is the most serious news of say

retatrutide phase 3 trial

4:44

the past week. Um, but that is Eli Lilly and things happening with Eli Lilly. Uh they have basically what I'm also gonna call this wonder drug that has gone through phase three trials, and what we've seen, you know, 28% loss in body fat, like all these numbers going around. Um, but of course, I'm referring to the Reddit phase three trial. And we're allowed to say that on camera because I'm saying that's Eli Lily's. Yeah, I know Reddit's mainstream now. Yes. Um so 28% was the average body weight, but 45% of the people in the trial, so one in two people, lost over a third of their body weight. Wow. Yep. Uh which is crazy because until now the only thing that has done that is bariatric surgery. Right. And now you can do that in 80 weeks by taking a GLP 1. Yep. Yep. Kind of insane, kind of insane. You know, even for my, you know, again, like like we're always going to come back to the New York Times article at the beginning of the year calling me a peptide skeptic. Uh even I must say that I'm certainly uh not skeptical of GLPs. Like, I think that's, you know, and we're especially I mean, you'd be pretty, pretty insane to still be skeptical of it after this these particular results, I would say. And again, I'm saying that as the skeptic. Yep. Um want to get into a post here by Crimean.

@cremieuxrecueil reaction

6:00

He said, now that we have phase three results for Red Atrutide, it's time to revisit the question. What would happen to obesity if we gave every obese BMI of 30 plus person the drug for just one year? Well, the obesity rate would fall by more than 80%. We'd be skinnier than the US circa 1980. Don't know why I said the last bit so slowly, but you know. Um my kind of uh view is let's assume we lived in some sort of like autocratic state. And we were just trying to have one singular public health intervention that uh could in in like hypothetical land uh uh do the most for the average healthy Americans. The thing you'd probably choose is like put GLP ones in the water. Yeah. Like at this stage. And I'm being kind of facetious, you can't put GLP ones in the water yet. Um but you can put every obese person on a GLP 1 or do everything you can to get someone on one. Right. And I think that's like net positive for uh American people. It's probably not not net positive for American business outside of Eli. Sure. Um, but um uh that's kind of where we're going. Yep. No, totally makes sense. It's funny. I mean, I think even uh as early back to 2022, I would always tweet. I think as when I had like 200 followers, I'd always be tweeting about how um, you know, we should need to put creatine in the water, right? It's like like yeah, I think I even remember posting something along the lines of like, you know, uh peptides in the water. Peptides in the water, yeah. I was early. So so here's the thing that I've been thinking more about as I look into more of kind of the biochemistry of peptides. Um if you look at creatine, creatine over time denatures, it basically breaks down, and the amino acid changes from creatine to like, who knows, some random amino acid. But when we put that in the body, the body just recycles the amino acid, the cell takes it and uses it for something else. And I I suspect we're gonna see the oral peptides are very similar. Yeah. I actually suspect we're gonna see a similar thing with oral BBC, oral epithalin, and oral pineal, where that's similar to creatine. And if it breaks down uh and if it's not absorbed, it's fine. It does the same thing as any amino acid. It's the way protein does in the body. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, makes sense, makes sense. And then that way, I guess again, you know, coming from like a layman's perspective, um, I'm I'm guessing because of that mechanism, you don't also get the liver toxicity, or is that something yet to be uh sort of like studied or if if you have a lot of protein that's bad for the kidneys. Yeah. Uh the kidneys kind of need to filter that. If you have a lot of creatine, it's probably bad for the kidneys, creatinine increases, uh, EGFR goes in the wrong direction, etc. So all of that is filtered through the kidneys. Yep. Liver toxicity, I doubt would be as much of a life concern. Um, but I don't know. Yeah, I'm I'm coming from like the steroid point of view. I'm thinking of like, oh, like oral anivar. Like, not not not that great for the liver. I mean, any any oral steroid. I mean, it's it's it's not not gonna be you know, that's always the concern, right? And it's why bodybuilders will inject intramuscular because they're trying to avoid that that liver toxicity. Again, you know, I mean you you study bodybuilders like me, not that I not that I are have you injected creatine yet? I've not injected creatine. I pass out with blood tests. Goodness gracious, I'm I'm I'm a I'm a uh I'm a weakling when it comes to that sort of thing. Uh not squeamish, I just don't like it. Um so you know, as as uh things change, uh I might have to get over that. So it's so interesting. I've seen so many people inject themselves, yeah, and all the guys are not all most of the guys are kind of squeamish and scaven and they hate needles. Yeah. The girls go like right up, inject, first time, don't care. It's been really interesting. I see that we get lots of people who get blood drawers in the office here. Yes. Um uh guests who are coming in just for the day or morning. Um, similar story. Guys hate the blood drawers, yeah, and the girls are pretty chill. Yep. You think do you think there is maybe uh, you know, like like do you think like something like a Botox is maybe normalized that sort of thing? I was thinking about that maybe, but I think many of the people I've seen who are injecting aren't on Botox, they haven't gotten Botox before. So I don't know. I don't know what the cause is. Yeah, yeah, coming. We'll be looking. We'll be monitoring this. Uh we will be monitoring this. Um another another thing, you know, if we're just if we're simply sort of doing a little bit of a a recap here, because of course, you know, um, you know, you you you appeared on on MTS, not to be confused with Mots, uh, talking about the the phase three. Um, what people might have

Elli Lilly $1T in market cap

10:20

not also seen is that Elay Lele passed a trillion in market cap, is that correct? Uh yep. Yeah. Uh yeah, depending on the day of the week, Elay can be bigger than Tesla. Um I think that's just the harbinger of where we're going, which is uh AI matters a lot. Yep. Uh real-world automatic matters a lot, and then bio matters a lot. And Elay is kind of the bio pioneer at the moment. They're building monopoly by acquiring really interesting drug assets. Yeah. Elay's betting far more aggressively on like the wellness and human enhancement theme than any of the other biotech companies. Yeah. And I think that's gonna pay off. Eli is potentially still underpriced. If we actually believe that they're the platform for all human enhancement drugs, they're probably underpriced. Yeah, yeah. Well, there's a take. I mean, I can't really add anything else to that. I just thought it was interesting. There was one, actually. Uh let me see if I go through my stuff here. There was actually something that came out today. Uh okay, so this is from MTS Live. Uh

@MTSlive reaction

11:17

they say Eli Lilly released extremely promising results from the phase one trial of its new gene editing drug, Verve 102. If these results hold up, it could be a one-shot permanent solution to cure the number one cause of heart disease. And of course, they're linked to a particular drop. So, you know, this was just today. Uh and I, you know, I mean, obviously, like me as uh someone uneducated on this particular thing, I just wanted to lump it in because it seems like they're doing pretty well. How's that for a take? So this this this drug is insane because one of the like best things we have right now to reduce cardiovascular disease risk is um uh PCSK9 inhibitor. And that's an injection. You have to do it for the rest of your life if you want to actually reduce or inhibit PCS-K9. Yeah. What Verve 102 does is you can sit there for four hours with an IV in your arm once, and you modify your DNA. And when you modify your DNA, you basically uh permanently inhibit the PCSK9. And when that's inhibited, people don't uh have uh bad cholesterol form in the same way. Um, which is very dystopian, but also utopian, right? Yes. The thought of someone sitting there with an IV infusion for four hours to modify their DNA to not get heart disease. Yeah, that's kind of the world we're approaching. Yeah, oh I I thought you were gonna say uh uh the number one prevention is actually cardio, and I was like, oh no. Please don't say the C word like that, I'm kidding. Um, this man clearly doesn't like cardio. Yeah, yeah. It's catabolic, it harms the bench press numbers. So when as soon as you said injection, I was like, oh thank God. You know? Bicep curls. That's right, that's right. Hey, hey, set to ten. That's cardio to guys like me. It's cardio to guys like me. But yeah, I mean, again, it is like even as somebody who uh you know is not necessarily interacting with all of this stuff every single day, I'm seeing Eli Lilly pop up on the timeline all the time. So that's kind of one I wanted to uh Yeah David Well, David Ricks, the Eli CEO is on the podcast tour. Oh yes, yeah, he's done a few now. Okay, and he's he's gonna keep on going. So it kind of you have to ask, like, why is he on a podcast tour? Yeah. Um, and uh maybe it's because he's just like I enjoy podcasts. I think it's more likely that they need to attract talent. Yep. And they probably want to attract talent from tech and from like bio like frontier biotech. Yes. And they want to attract people who would otherwise maybe start companies. They want people to sell drugs to them and to the podcast scene. Yep. Um that makes sense. That makes sense. I mean, uh it all converges on to niche podcasts, thank god. My job is safe. My job is safe. Um David Ricks on your podcast soon, the Eli guy. I'd be kind of down. I'd be kind of down. I mean, I'd have to uh chat peptides with it. Yeah. Eli

Elli Lilly BPC-157?

13:56

Lily BPC when. Yeah, yeah. I'm so curious to see how they're kind of thinking about BPC. I was gonna say, do you think like, do you think somebody like that would even would even touch that? Uh well, it's tough for a couple of reasons. Um one is if Eli had BPC, they would uh if big let's say Big Pharma had BPC, they would cannibalize the revenue of drugs that people are on for life. Right? MSK makes Big Pharma a lot of money. Right? They want people on these biologics for a very long time, for the rest of their life. When people take BBC, and externally many people don't need these drugs anymore. Yeah. And BBC is not a very expensive drug, it doesn't have to be taken for a very long time, and people don't need the expensive drug. It's taken for a problem number one with pharma research and BBC. Problem number two is that um to actually patent it, they need to change the formulation. And it's kind of weird to have something that works or that seems to work, um, and then to have to change the formulation and spend $500 million and spend five to ten years when something already kind of works. Yeah. Like they don't have much of an incentive to do that. Right. So I don't know. I'm sure they're looking quite closely at it. I'd be so curious to see kind of what's going through their mind and how they decide to play the theme. What they might do is they might be looking at how they can take BBC and turn it into once weekly rather than like a twice-daily injection. They might buy modifications of BBC to make it far more effective. They might want to get it approved for certain indications with a really high, like sticker price that like payers pay for. So I'm sure they're thinking about it, not sure exactly how yet. Totally, totally. I think um, you know, on on the on the topic of Eli Lilly going down the enhancement route. Basically,

Enhanced Games recap (my words)

15:40

the thing that I was most excited to talk about today, you know, biased because I was there, but is the enhanced games. The enhanced games. So full disclosure, I was there. Max was not. Um, but of course. What do you think about all the kind of psalms and trend everyone was on? Honestly, it was kind of underwhelming. I wanted I wanted to see specimens. Enhanced games, you can only take FDA approved enhancement. It's such a shame. It was such a shame. I wanted to. But they're the ones you can sell, bros. Like, you know. You can't sell the psalms. I wanted, I wanted to see, you know, I mean, obviously, like I've had a few, I've had a few, like, you know, bodybuilding.com bros in my comment section, like, because I've always been joking, like, I just want to see swimmers on trend, you know, I want to see, I want to see sprinters on net. I want to see, like, you know, I want to see like um uh maybe maybe you say um what's the interpretive dance, like where they do the ribbons? I'm trying you know what about it weird Olympic sports. Yeah, the Olympic sports, like like them on like magic mushrooms or something, like like cocaine lawn balls. Them on Racetans, I think would be fascinating. These like these these Russian cognitive enhancement cards. Oh yeah. I I wanted to see, I wanted to see specimens. You know, I wanted I wanted to see the equestrian but the horses on steroids. Like like this is what I wanted to see. Um what I got instead were a bunch of athletes that were past their prime, clearly on stuff, so still performing. Uh and you know, we're still a few seconds uh, you know, tens of pounds off of world records. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, it it did feel okay, so so my recap, and this is my words, and I'm happy to say, but my particular recap, the hot entire weekend was a bit of a fever dream. It was a bit of a fever dream. Uh the opening party was very funny. It was just like this interesting mix of like teal capital, uh, like crypto bros, uh fitness influences. So I met I met uh this guy named Kyle who holds the world record total for powerlifting right now. So that particular day, he was telling me he had pulled like 805 for three, just as like, you know, like an RP of seven. And like all he was just wanted to talk about video games in In and Out Burger. Yeah. So that was very funny. Okay. Um, and then there were also uh Larry Wheels was there. So like all of these fitness influences, Jesse James West. Yeah, so you felt small for the first time in your life? I felt tiny, and I was like, I was like, you know, one cycle could not. I'm kidding. You know, you need some of those enhancements. Exactly. Exactly. That's where you can buy them. Yeah. Well, that's what I found out today. So I'll get to that. But yeah, it was just this really, really fascinating mix. I felt like I was transported back to 2021 in the ZERP era, enhanced, of course, spAcked. Everyone was talking about, like, you know, people were talking about crypto. Uh I had like dudes on steroids trying to tell me about AI agent orchestration, and I was like, ah, jeez, like total fever dream. The games themselves, um, they had a good crack. Let's just say that. They had a good crack. Without going too hard on them, they had a good crack. Um, I wish they like staggered different events because it was kind of one event and then there was some like weird sideshow, and then there was another event. Anyway, I'm sort of tangenting, but I wanted to give the people a bit of a recap, insider's point of view. Yes, I was invited, yes, I went, and I'll remember it for the rest of my life. And yes, you're not gonna be invited again. And I probably won't be invited again because I did go hard at them on the timeline. So that is right, that is right. Um, but the the takeaways, right? And of course, people were talking about this on the timeline. The takeaways were uh the natural athletes won most of the time. Um a natural athlete broke the 53 world record, but they were wearing the illegal suit that was banned, I think, in 2009. Which doesn't, which is like, okay. I mean, it would have been cool if he was like on tram or something. Um, and then I mean, my words, my words. Just to be clear. The disclaimer. Yeah. None of this is medical advice. Not even this is not even wellness advice. It's not enhanced advice, you know, we're off the deep end now. Um, and so yeah, those were the takeaways, of course. Stock price just absolutely tanked afterwards. Again, SPAC in 2026. I kind of expect that for any any SPAC to be fair. Um and then, yeah, looking today, what I didn't realize, and I hadn't even bothered to check their website, but they're actually selling testosterone enhanced. Um, I've thrown a lot, I've been talking for a while, I wanted to do the recap. Um, but let's first of all get your thoughts high level generally of the games

Max’s thoughts on the Enhanced Games

20:18

and just you know the concept in general. And then I want to ask you um, what do you think happens to a company that is selling testosterone online after a $50 million marketing event? Yeah, let me um go, how do I think about kind of the themes? Yes. How do I think if I were in their shoes, how would I execute? Yes. And then commentary on how to execute it. Um so uh it's easier to be the critic than the creator. Yes. I'll say that. Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, like I said, I'll remember it for the rest of my life, like like one of the most ambitious things I've ever seen. It was like they're they're they're batshit crazy. Um so fair enough. Fair enough, you know. Yeah, I think they've they've picked the theme right. Yep. I think enhancement is gonna be one of the most important themes of the next decade. I think we're gonna get to a world where it's a biological imperative. Like every human is going to want to be smarter and more energetic and lose weight and better looking and have more energy and need less sleep. Like that's where we're going, right? We're going to a world of enhanced humans. And if we choose to ignore that fact, everyone's gonna be enhanced and you're not. So you're not gonna have much of a choice. Now we're a little bit off that, but thematically I think they're really on point. I love the idea of trying to find CPM arbitrage by doing a media play. I think media is still underpriced, clipping is still underpriced. Enhanced kind of saw that and went really hard at that. Yep. I love the kind of word rotation or the ethos where you have like health meets like some sort of political and cultural commentary, like commercial meets content. And I think we're seeing that come to life here. Like the enhanced games are smart, the like the like Olympic analogy, people love watching feats of human performance. So I think they have a lot of the kind of things in the making. Um it could work. Yeah, it could work. Now, if I put myself in their shoes, I think that makes it really tricky from a business perspective, is that um To spend $30 million on a brand marketing campaign before you actually have a commercial model and before you have the ability to translate those brand moments into converted customers by way of kind of performance marketing is really challenging. Yep. Right? I think if they kind of did it the opposite way, which is they actually built a really clinically robust, sound, strong like performance marketing, influencer marketing, affiliate marketing engine for their core product company and then launch the games, it probably would be better commercially. And also it'd probably be better from a messaging perspective. Yes. Because now what everyone's gonna have a go at them for is oh I thought you were the enhanced games, but you're just like shilling drugs. Yes. Um if they did the opposite, people would be like, this is so cool, a health company's sponsoring the new Olympics. Yes. So I think the opposite kind of would have worked a little bit better commercially and then also from a messaging perspective. In terms of their execution, it's tough. It's a very hard message if you want to get the best athletes. Yep. The whole steroid Olympics idea was great for virality, but it is very polarizing at the level of uh customer acquisition on their products and also polarizing at the level of athlete acquisition, which is an imperative, right? You need the best athletes there. Um so that was a little bit tough. Um it's hard to pull off games. Yeah. Like the production of those things is really challenging for an early stage company. I don't know why they IPO'd. I think IPOing is a great marketing stunt. Yes. But it's really, really challenging to IPO, basically with zero revenue. You can do that if you're a biotech company. Yep. Uh you can do that if it's like zerp for things that are not AI, but right now it's like only ZERP for AI, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, um well, ZERP's probably the wrong word, but yeah, yeah. No, I I I get you know, the the you know I guess what you're what you're what you're getting at is like the level of growth needed, right? Totally. Um uh so we'll we'll see. It could work, yeah. Right. If we extend the time axis, if we assume capital is not a constraint, if they're able to continue to invest in these things, and then they're able to high well enough in the marketing side, they might be able to make it work. They're in a pretty tricky place. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, what what are your thoughts generally on sort of um, you know, because what we've what we've spoken about in

Is it too early to be selling peptides online?

24:11

the past is you know the the idea of uh reclassification, right? Reclassification of uh of peptides, right, going back to sort of the um what was it, the pre-Biden era classification, uh allowing for certain compounds to be compounded by uh pharmacies, that's correct? Uh well compounded by compounding pharmacies. And so with this on the horizon, do you feel like such a ploy do you do you feel like maybe something like this is just slightly too early? Uh we'll see. Um I I I I I respect them, I commend them. I think more stuff like this is needed. I think it's very hard to get eyeballs and brand awareness, and they certainly have it. You have millions and millions of eyeballs and like potentially national awareness from this event. Right? And if you could say to a big brand, uh, you can get national awareness for 30 million bucks, like that's actually kind of cheap to get national awareness for 30 million bucks with like some hero message or some branded message out there. Yep. Um I don't know if it's necessarily uh early per se. The order of operations of execution was maybe somewhat questionable. Um they will sell peptides, they'll be in a good position to sell peptides because they now have awareness. When you have awareness, it's easier to actually convert at the performance level. Um so we'll see. Totally, totally. I guess um, you know, the the reason why I use the word early is because, you know, again, if I go onto their website, I can see like you know, testosterone cycle, which is, you know, that's that's illegal, right? That's illegal. No, no, testosterone's legal. It's it's legal to sell? Yeah, yeah. Is it really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Um I figured I figured it was just illegal, but you know you need a prescription, right? Okay. So so they're they're they have doctors in the loop and they're prescribing testosterone. Okay. And someone therefore needs to qualify for the prescription. Yeah. So if you went and you said, I want a big testosterone cycle, no, you're not getting it. Well, you might get it, but if you're getting it, they're breaking the law. Yeah, so that's that's that's what I uh I I suspect you wouldn't get it though. Yeah. Like if my dad went and wanted testosterone to go from 600 to 1,000, you'd get that. And I think that's like valid. That's how testosterone is often prescribed uh for middle-aged men. Yep. So that's it. A legal without a prescription. Again, I haven't done the whole click-through, so I'll save uh, you know, to not risk any defamation cases on my end. Max is not saying these stuff. I am. Uh so if anybody's listening, you can come after me. Uh you know, that's just one of those things. I'm just asking questions. You can't defame someone who has a media platform. It's like the risk is not worth it. It's just like like them trying to defame you would uh uh tank the stock price even more. Yeah. I don't think your reach isn't that big yet, but it's it's influential. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. You know, like I I always feel pretty small in the grand scheme of things, but hey, you know, there's uh like yeah, if if um if there's one thing that I'm able to do is that is uh break containment every once in a while. So I think you know, to to sort of wrap here, because I think it's a nice, it's actually a nice place to wrap,

@superpower peptide update

27:15

because obviously um, you know, we were talking about this a little bit last time, uh, you know, superpower gearing up to start providing selling peptides, you know, once that reclassification is there. Uh and so, you know, like how might a superpower differ to somebody like an enhance, right? That already sort of has the website and that you can, you know, click on what you might want to purchase. How are you guys going about it differently and how are you guys gearing up for that reclassification? I think so much of like doing a good job of peptides is one, having maximum transparency across the supply chain. I think a lot about how can everything be third-party tested, how can that all be exposed? How can that same testing infrastructure be applied to test the drugs of pharma, the drugs of other companies, uh companies? What we're seeing is many of the compounds of drugs that have been making in preparation for this are higher quality than the ones farmer are making. Okay, cool, now we're getting into the decentralized FDA territory. I think supply chain's important. Yeah. Brand's really important. I think there's this tension between uh clinical and culture. Okay. I think you need to do both. I think if you want to be the place people trust, you need to clinically be very sound and and and uh have doctors with authority and kind of the clinical processes. And you also need to provide cultural commentary. Yeah. Um ideally, cultural commentary though, with a big tab. Yeah. Uh the the kind of steroid cultural commentary, the kind of maybe constraint there is is good in that there's a there's a loyalist group who you can clearly communicate to, is bad in that that loyalist group is very small, and that is not necessarily the the way to expand to the incremental group, right? Like my mum is not buying from enhanced. Um the third thing uh I think we're gonna see companies do is gonna be this question of um who can get really interesting peptide IP. I think we're still in the really early days of seeing new peptides emerge, new delivery mechanisms merge, etc. So I think that's gonna be a big part of it as well. And I think if you can bring these things together, which is like really robust supply chain, really strong brand at the intersection of clinical and cultural, and then some sort of edge in terms of IP, you end up in an interesting place. Yep. Makes total sense, make total sense. Um, do you have any sort of estimate on, you know, of because obviously we've seen RFK sort of come out and announce the announcements uh over and over again over the past few months. Um, any updated estimates as to when that will be formally reclassified? Any you can take you

Peptide sales and reclassification predictions

29:35

make prediction? I I I if I were predicting, I'd say we're gonna start seeing people selling them in probably September. Yep. Uh I think they're gonna actually be reclassified more like January or February. Sure. Yeah. But the FDA is basically gonna be like, we're not enforcing, so long as it's not a GLP one. Yeah. Redder, whoever's selling Redder is gonna get sued the crap out of. Yeah. And they're like, kinda deserve to get sued the crap out of, because that's Elo's drug, not a drug. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, um, so GLP1's off the table. The FDA is gonna crack down, they're already cracking down. SS31, similar story, there are patterns for that. I think people are gonna sell the other peptides. Yeah. The FDA is not gonna crack down even ahead of the classification, and therefore there's gonna be this question of how much risk does a company want to take. Yep, it makes total sense. Um before we wrap, I should ask, and I have I've actually been asking, uh, you know, I don't really call them guests, I actually call them co-hosts, right? This is this is the difference between uh moths and other podcasts because you know, I like to try and make it a look almost equal talking. Uh anyway. Useless information. Uh but uh anything, anything that um anything that we might be good to rap on, anything off the top of your head. Uh otherwise, if not, we can just fucking rap. Oh, Tom, so many things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um I I I I just

We’re still early

30:50

think that uh six months ago, no one was talking about peptides. Right? Except for me on the timeline. Maybe you on the timeline. Yeah, you were early. No one was talking about peptides. Yeah. Today it seems like everyone is talking about peptides. And I think we're still just getting started. Yeah. Right? Literacy is low. Uh the uh kind of discussion about peptides is still very high-level and sensationalist. Um GLP1s were the first amendment. Yeah. GLP1s is the miracle drug for weight loss. We're gonna see, I suspect, miracle drugs for many other things. Many will be done by pharma, right? Many will not be done by pharma as well. Uh, but I think we're entering this decade of like I've seen people say peptides are like clawed code for the human body. Yep. I don't know if I necessarily love that analogy, but I think we're entering this decade of like bio being really, really important. The enhancement and progression of the human being really, really important, and we're just at the start. Totally. Totally makes sense to me. Um, you know, I uh like I I I welcome all the skinny kings, all the new skinny kings and queens. Uh I think that is I think that is good. Uh all I've got to say about that is those of you that are already skinny kings and queens, I'd say get in the gym. Right? The alpha's gonna be in the arms. Uh just talking my book real quick. Uh I have no life otherwise. A friend of mine has built exercise and appeal. Oh, yeah? And that that's gonna be um probably in marketing coming years. Okay. Okay. So you know, you're not gonna have that alpha, really? That's gonna jump on steroids. No, it gives you many of the um cardiovascular benefits of exercise. Yes. Uh, but you're not gonna put on muscular and appeal yet. Totally, totally. Hey, you know, we'll see. We'll see. Uh for now, the moat is still the arms, people. The moat the moat is still the arms and the social skills. Controversy. For now. For now. Yeah, when's the peptide for not going non-verbal? Yeah, yeah, there's um uh I I've been thinking about what's good anti-autism stack. Oh yeah. Uh nicotine like pro-autism, yeah, yeah. Uh beta blockers are anti-autism, yes. Like uh uh colonergics, like Alpha GPC are like pro-autism, uh theanine are like pharma gatherer and like Fennevat are anti-autism. Yeah. Uh so I'm waiting for like the the kind of SF uh uh techno-philosophizers to discover the anti-autism stacks. Black coffee, uh anti-autism. I say black coffee? Black coffee pre-workout? I don't know. I think it's kind of neutral. Yeah, there's like pro and anti components, right? Yeah, I was gonna say because it can it can make people lock in, but it'll cause I mean it makes me more social, makes me talk faster. Um, I'm just a big fan. Big fan of caffeine. Uh that's one that I will push. Um Black Coffee sponsored this podcast. Yeah. An entire Black Coffee. Yeah, I need to get like uh coffee futures as a sponsor or something, some like CME contract or whatever. Um, cool. I think that's a perfect place to wrap. Uh being listening to another episode of Members of Technical Staff, we'll go ahead and see you on the timeline again real soon.