Personal Style in SF, with Jason Liu

@baelentina_ and I visited @jxnlco the other day to discuss whether dressing well in SF is low status or not, personal hygiene and how technology brothers should be more vain.

We also used some new innovative framing for Jason with this episode. MOTS is always pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable production.

Watch on X; listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

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Transcript

What is SF fashion + personal hygiene

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Nice nice ambience and airflow, you know? Why not? In in the in in the fucking in the fucking bug pod.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Let me check. Oh no, he's clean.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Oh sh fuck, I hope so.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Why do you look at me like I was- How about hygiene?

SPEAKER_02 0:14

We talk about this in today's episode of the Member of Technical Staff.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

Yeah, so today's episode is we're gonna be talking about personal hygiene. That's actually true though.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

We're gonna talk about whether you stank or not and how to make sure you don't. How do you smell? How do you smell it?

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Yeah, because you can smell someone even when you can't see them.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

You can see, you can see you can smell someone when you can see them. You can smell someone through your eyes.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Yeah, if I can hear you talking, I can smell you coming.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Matter of fact, yes, I can.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

This is this is a an incredible cold open. Incredible cold open for a very, very special episode of members of technical staff. We're talking about personal style in San Francisco. We actually tried to do this yesterday, um, but I fucked up because I'm um, you know, I'm a weak idiot.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

You're just not technical enough yet.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

That is true. That is true. My like every like I have uh the technical bones in my body have since left. That's not I've been working with coding agents for the past year. I forgive you. Oh yeah?

unknown 1:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

It's on the vibe coding, it's actually just harming our brains.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Really? Man, I mean, yeah, it's that. Maybe it's like X.com The Everything app. That's what I think it's probably fine though. But yeah, pretty pretty excited to be here uh with Jason Valentina. You're gonna be talking about personal style because these happen to be a couple of my friends that I would consider to have some style. Controversial. No makeup.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Her, who knows?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

No, nothing. Oh, yeah? A little natural, you know, a little natural look. Don't mind. Just a little lip gloss, don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

A little bit of a little bit of gloss, a little bit of gloss. Okay, so I think a good place to start is what is the current state of style, of fashion in San Francisco. In fact, well, I mean, I think it's pretty negative across the board. Uh friend of the show,

@sporadica reaction

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Spohr, he says, uh, I really miss living in a city where people have fashion sense. SF is nearly entirely devoid of it and it makes me sad. Thoughts? Bit arch.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

I mean, I think I think the big thing is that we we're using words like fashion, but I feel like people don't even think about expressing themselves in any way externally, right? Yeah. You know, I think about clothing being the only form of art that you you sort of disclose your taste immediately.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yeah, you you reveal too many of your cards, which is something that people here are averse to, I feel like. That's why people here also don't drink. There's like a correlation, I think, between like not wanting to express yourself and like being scared about like what's at stake.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Maybe it's like an information war, you know? Like if you knew what movies made me sad and what movies made me cry and what music I listened to after a breakup, who knows? But clothing, you have to know. And I feel like here is like one angle maybe is that you're protecting yourself. The other angle maybe is that there's nothing to protect. To share.

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Nothing to share. And nothing to protect. Well, nothing to protect would maybe be um would maybe be positive. I'd say that I have nothing to protect.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Damn.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

What do you think about that? I mean, honestly, you just give skims.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

You have something to protect. No one with that much muscle has uh something brittle on the inside that's soft and reliable. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

I'll let the voices in my head deal with that one. Uh we'll see. Jason, you

Patagonia + Levi's

SPEAKER_03 3:22

said, you said uh, this was back in February last year. You said SF weather is so much better for fashion, and yet dot dot dot.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Yeah. No one layers.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

Yeah, you can always be layering. Can always be layering. I mean, I wouldn't be called dead layering, but that's that's also but you know, sort of back to my my issues that I'm don't need to protect.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Yeah, the best they got is like a Patagonia vest, so I guess that's something.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

True, true. How many Patagonias do you own, Jason? Do you want to see it?

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Oh wait, you're just gonna bust it out. Wait, do you own many? I have one Patagonia vest, but it is not what you think. I have a fishing vest from Patagonia. Oh, that's pretty good. Yeah. 12 pockets fits a Mac Mini.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Mac mini and a MacBook Air. I don't even get me one of them.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

So I.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

What about MacDonald's? Just kidding.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Who's building this? Yeah. Yeah, she's fucked. It's gone. I don't even know if Jason's in the frame when he turns around. I can see the camera, the camera can see me. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. What about, yeah, what about, yeah, okay. I mean, how do we how do we uh how do we pick up from well actually, you know what?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

From this workware angle, I'm gonna tie back to that thing I was telling you guys about yesterday, which is like the Levi's. Like Levi's the brand.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

I made sure to wear them today. I got the Levi's on right today. Oh sports fishing for that. Thanks. If you didn't say that I was gonna kill myself.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Well, I got you.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

To be fair, you know, when we talked about Levi's, it was like work wear and denim. Not uh, not not a spandex. These are these these are these are like these are like spandex blend cotton.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

They weren't kicked up back then, they were underfed back then. They were working in the mine.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

If you walked into a coffee table, the denim would rip. Like this is not the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

I don't want to be So what what what what Jason is talking about is how is how tight these are around my leg.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

It's what he's talking about. What's the weight of this denim? It's like 14 ounces, dog. It's great quality.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

I mean, if they can keep these fucking built for a shelf. Yeah. Alright, they didn't build them for that back then. They built them for the scrawny legs.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

But would I be able to do a bodyweight squat in these? No. Do I need to be doing that? Sometimes. You know, when I'm out on the weekend. That's why I don't wear these. But uh, has it been a good indicator of my progress on leg day? Yes. Did they fit better on me a couple of years ago? They did. So there's that.

unknown 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Well, you know, it started off with workwear, which was I think I think that Levi's what was interesting about them is that they were like a symbol of something. It wasn't just like a product, which is like the Alberts thing. Like Albert's is just a product, they're not selling like a symbol.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

Well, they're selling software now. Don't mind if we do.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Albert's the largest owner of Compute 2035. They have more infrastructure and data centers than AWS.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

Um, there was one actually, there was a post from today. Um, so this was from what a rare handle. This is at CAN. You see this? At CAN? Can you even see this from here? Oh no. Yeah, I don't know them either. Um thought it was a thought it was a relevant tweet. Um can

@can reaction

SPEAKER_03 6:28

said, one nice thing about flying to SF is that you don't have to bring any nice clothes. So basically.

unknown 6:33

Yeah, fuck.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

It's it's it's self-reinforcing. It's self-reinforcing. All clothes are nice, even a nice body. We'll talk about that later. Oh, yeah? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

That's true. Body first. When body is too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

I mean, what do you think? I'm thinking. With my spandex over here. With my skims.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

You could put logos all over the place here.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

I should do that. I really should do that. Like I've been trying to sell them. I'm just gonna give them to MOT sponsors. Speaking of which, Zoe Computer. That's gonna go right on my arm. Zoe Computer, your personal assistant in the cloud. Right? Right? In the cloud. Build personal apps and automations using Zoe Computer. Thanks for that. Cool. Continuing here, uh, okay. So what is it? Yeah, it's like your Patagonias, it's your all birds', birds',

Company swag + shoutout @eliano and palantir merch + college swag??

SPEAKER_03 7:18

it's your company swag. The company swag epidemic. I say it's an epidemic. I mean, it's been happening forever. I mean, it's like like I lived here in 2017. Uh, people were also wearing company swag.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

But some merch is kind of cool. Like, people love Palantir merch.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

Oh, yeah? Give a little shout out to Eliano.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

I mean, I've seen people that really like it.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Any thoughts on this, Jason? Lockheed Martin, great merch. You know, General Dynamics. What a good name, General Dynamics.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

I'm not I'm not a big merch guy. I don't need to be a billboard for anything that I don't want to be a billboard for.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

That's what I mean. I feel like I don't really like it, but I've definitely noticed that some people really like some brands, you know. So it's not like all merch is made equal.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

I think if it's hard to get merch, it is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Or like Costco wholesale, I that's the one thing I have reps is like the Costco Kirkland signature sweater. Yeah, you you know, I yeah, I thought I was I thought it was great.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

I bought one of them for my younger brother, Ralph of Etsy.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

It's just so on the nose, you know. Yeah, we live in capitalism.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Yeah, Kirkland signature. I think um where was I gonna go with this? Um I had a thought and I completely fucked my. Oh, that's it, right? As a as a as a foreigner, as a foreigner moving to San Francisco. Yeah, that's how it's that's how I say it. That's correct. Basically, what I noticed is people up until they are like unk age, they continue to wear their college sweaters here. I've never seen I've never seen that anywhere else on earth.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

That's really nice.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

What the fuck's up with that?

SPEAKER_02 8:50

Generally, you know, people wear clothes to fit in. And I think when you wear logos like that, you're trying to signal to someone else, you know, someone please talk to me. Like, use this as a way of like starting a conversation. You know, whether it's like a cool handbag, like a cool pair of pants, or just a Stanford cap.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

Yeah, but it's more strange when they buy it at like a Marshall's or a TJ Maxx and they didn't even go there.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Yeah, yeah, I think Moss Stanford shirts.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Yeah, and they sell them at the like Marshall's down in the South Bay. Like, anyone could have it.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

I'm waiting for the Brandy Melville Stanford Collab, you know. Oh, don't mind if I do. Mott Stanford Collab?

SPEAKER_03 9:25

When?

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Mott's Brandy Melville.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

Mott's Brandy Melville.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

That'd be great.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

That would be pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

That'd be actually completely on brand.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

I need to start working on my fucking like brand.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Like, you don't fit in a brandy Melville, you're too fucking fat. It's what Brandy Melville would say to you if you went in and trying to ask for any size.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

Jason's talking about my BMI, which is which would say that I am fat, my BMI, but we know that BMI is a flawed metric.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

I got a DEXA scan recently. I have really terrible appendageal lean body mass to height squared ratio.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

I think my BMI right now is like 17.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

They're just making shit up, dude.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

It's fucking so mean. Them with their ratios. They are making stuff up, I swear to god, like none of this shit matters.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

I don't believe in Dexascans.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, if I took it, I'd like to just my body dysmorphia would go through the roof. But, you know, I make that happen anyway by wearing spandex every day. According to

Baggy clothes and proportions

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Jake. If you just wear bad year clothes, you don't even have to see your body.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Wait, what were you saying about the calf socks?

SPEAKER_03 10:23

Oh, so so okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

That blew my mind.

SPEAKER_03 10:28

Okay, so um, so I think the best way, so before we get into sort of where maybe this lack of style, lack of fashion sense in San Francisco actually uh originated from, I can get into because we were talking about proportions and silhouettes yesterday when it comes to personal style. Um and this is this this gets deep. This gets deep. Uh one thing that I like to do when I go to the gym is I wear very, very baggy pants and I wear like a skin tight stringer top. Because it makes me look wider, right? Jason knows he's a ball knower.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Listen, I got a I got I got a small waist, I'm just wide.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah? That's true. Jason's shaped like a Coke bottle.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you go the baggy pants. Excuse me? That's not what a Coke bottle looks like, you know. I want to be shaped like that.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

That is.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

I want a swimmer's physique. Anyways, go on.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

I'm going for the Dorito physique, you know, like nothing into fucking triangle. Um my waist size is a 30.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Ooh, a T.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

My waist size is 30. These are 30.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Wait, what's yours?

SPEAKER_03 11:36

29. Oh! Okay. He's got me beat. I'm a fat ass.

unknown 11:43

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

What do you wear?

SPEAKER_03 11:45

I weigh, I I generally fluctuate between 160 and 165 pounds.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

This is reminding me of Pro Anna Tumblr. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

We're tangenting a lot, but this is important because I mean it all like like like the the technology. No, no, no, no, no, it's good, it's good. Because the the the this is these are the things, right? Technology brothers, I'm convinced, need to learn more vanity. They need to learn to be more vain, right? And and so this you brought up the calf socks, okay? Here's here's fucking like vanity 101 for Jim Bros. If you have if you have dog shit calf insertions like I do, meaning that the calf insertions are just too high. What you can do to combat this is you can wear longer socks when you wear shorts. So my calves are pretty defined. I train them, but they're never gonna be that big because the insertions are too high. I just didn't win the genetic lottery when it came to my calves. I won them with my shoulders and my arms, I didn't win them with calves. So what you can do to combat this is you can wear long socks. It gives the illusion that your calves are actually inserted lower.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Isn't that fun? In like knee eyes.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

You would want it, you would want it to like here. Yeah. You know? So so I mean, but I mean, like, you actually have good calf insertions, right? Is this appropriate to be judging uh a woman's calf insertions on on tech Twitter? Yeah. Women generally have pretty good calves. This is why a lot of them don't really need to train calves. I too am a legs guy.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Oh yeah. I'm a calves guy. Specifically.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Fucking chaos. But yeah, that's you know, talking about silhouettes, vanity, all these different sorts of illusions that you can do. Um, you know, body dysmorphia type shit.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

I think people hear the way they look at fashion and anything, it's like, how much can I get away with, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Like or how little can I get away? Yeah. How much is like too artistic? No, no, no, not how much is it. Because I'll wear a skirt and sometimes I get away with it.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

But like that's not what is the bare minimum I can do and not be criticized for it? Except that they don't even do the hygiene

What tech bros should do first before dressing well

SPEAKER_00 13:43

shit.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

Yeah, yeah, let's talk about the hierarchy again. Because I feel like we when we talk about the bare minimum, like people are not even showering, they're not like brushing their teeth. You know, there's like because again, I think we kicked this off talking about fashion, but really it's uh just about like how you present yourself.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

Yeah, so we can actually, yeah, let's let's let's get into the hierarchy right now. Um before I do, I must give a shout out to cappi.ai. It's essentially the newest mod sponsor, Agentic IDE. You can integrate with Slack and have your non-technicals uh ship PRs, which is a bit scary. But people like you.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

People like me. If you see me on Cappy, then I go the other way. I'm I'm ruining the entire There's that, there's that.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

But yeah, we can get into Jason. If we're thinking about uh if we're thinking about building this from the ground up or building improv like improving this from the ground up, what what's the first thing the technology brethren in San Francisco should maybe start with? Hygiene, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:45

I think the hygiene is the first one, like getting like just like cutting your hair and like shaving yourself. I think smelling good oftentimes is like so much more of an effect on how you present yourself than even like looking good. Yeah. I don't know if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

No, no, I mean, I mean it's like, yeah, I mean, I I think uh it's like a bias thing. If you smell if you smell good, it's like you're more pleasant to be around.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Immediately are more attractive. Like yeah. You're not scaring people away.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

If you like, if you if you don't smell good, it's kind of like watching a movie with the sound off. You're like missing like half the experience.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

Hey, that's a that's a nice way to put it. That's a nice way to put it. Um, hygiene, smelling good. What else? I mean, just like a pair of pants that fit well.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Like one pair of pants that you invest in to be like tailored for your body.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

I mean, this is like maybe too old-fashioned, but I think a nice leather shoe.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

That's what I see.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

There's too much athleisure for people who don't work out. Yeah, yeah. You know, if you don't work out, just like wear a shoe that you don't work out in. Um I think a lot of it is actually just about grooming. Because like, you know, there's a like a better-looking person, a person who smells better is more well taken care of, can wear the same clothes, and generally I think they look better. So body is the outfit number one.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

Go to the gym. I mean, fuck, you just like you just preach and preach into the quiet.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

I would say though, for the average person, it's more important to have hygiene than to like have a great body. Because you can always work on the body, but like if you make a terrible first impression with with your stank, like you're never getting over that. You can always get more bad at the gym though.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yeah, and also like women don't I personally don't think women care that much about No, we just care about your hands.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Women are all about the hands. That's something you don't alpha you're only getting here. Oh yeah?

SPEAKER_03 16:37

Look, I mean, look, I've I've found this out the the hard way. Um, you know, I've been training training to impress women for nine years, and I've actually not felt the touch of one of them for nine years. Um you know, it kind of is the way that it actually goes. And but you know, when it comes to straight guys though, like Jason here. Myron.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Myron, Myron every single day. Yeah, dude. A portion biceps, you know, you think they're for women, but it's only the dudes who are trying to talk to you.

SPEAKER_03 17:02

That's right, that's right. It was the same thing at the gym today. Like, I've I you know, saw my gym crush there. I'm not fucking speaking to her, I'm speaking to the dude that knows me off of twitter.com. X.com. X.com. My bad. We're gonna be dead monetized now, or whatever that means. Okay, so I think the next place to go, and we can touch on this very, very briefly, but like

Where does the lack of style originate?

SPEAKER_03 17:22

I think it's important to recognize maybe where this lack of style comes from. And that is really it's it's it's like a rebellion against the finance bros, right? I'm thinking of like Apple 70s, 80s, right? Dress for comfort. If we're gonna do 80 hour weeks, make it like more comfortable, those sorts of things. Now, and I'll say it, it does feel a little bit like laziness.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Yeah, I think it's always been laziness.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

You do you think so?

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Because I don't think I don't think the tech bros are like fighting some like you know, religious war against the finance bros through like showering and like wearing a colored shirt, right? I think I think part of it is just a counter signal of like, oh, look how little I care about money. But then if you look at the people that they admire, whether it's like Zuck or Steve Jobs or whatever, they're still wearing nice clothes made of nice material that are tailored well.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Like Steve Jobs, like turtleneck is still like an Isimiyaki turtleneck.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:19

The denim like fits well. And those things they don't necessarily matter, but a part of like you know, transcending the fucking ape is to like appreciate useless things and like buy flowers and like you know, smell good even if no one's gonna be like you know, up in your grill. Totally. And like their inability to appreciate those things at all, I think is the sad part.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

You know what? I actually think there might be like one exception to this in tech, and it's like probably the most egregious, but like crypto bros.

unknown 18:49

Really?

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Cryptos, I think, love spending money on useless things. They're like the one facet of like tech that I can think of right now at least. That you know, they kind of love fashion. That's why they love Miami art week, whatever. Fashion in their sense, like it's obviously a very broad term. Like maybe it's like fashion in Miami is uh Miami's kind of a crime for the eyes and other places.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Yeah, sometimes body is the outfit, sometimes body the is the experiment.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

BBL is the outfit.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

Yeah, the filler is not the outfit.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

No, dang it.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

Uh I got a little bit of uh Motz's first disagreement. Uh vehemently disagreeing.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

No, I completely agree. It's usually not the outfit. But in Miami, it's the outfit. But in Miami, it's like the c the cachet of having that is completely different than here. It's it reads different, like socioculturally.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

I mean, to be fair, like using filler in Miami is like having like cloud code pick what your date is goes next, you know? It's kind of the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Exactly. You just have to have it. Like table stakes out there, table stakes.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

It's whatever it takes to reduce your aura.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

I will say there is like this broader trend of like at least women have kind of always cared about like how they present. So even in the city that I've lived in that cares the least, like probably San Francisco, yeah, everyone has like a little something that they do that they try. Which I think is a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:02

I wanna I wanna uh I wanna interrupt with one tweet here from fuckposting.

@fuckpoasting reaction

SPEAKER_03 20:07

He says, YC demo day. You mean SF fashion week? No comment. Yeah, yeah, considering the neighborhood where uh yeah. Oh true, they're here, aren't they? They're fucking across the road, dude.

unknown 20:22

They're listening to us.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

They are listening to us, you know.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Actually, that explains the the YC billboard outside my house. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

I do

Is @dylan522p now the best dressed in SF?

SPEAKER_00 20:30

think there are some icons that maybe we should cover. Like, there's some fashion icons, you know, there's like Palmer Lucky.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

Dylan Patel. First of all, I fucking made that. I know, I know, that's what I wanted to get to, dude. Cut to the before and afters. Cut to the before and afters. Have you seen the have you seen the before of Dylan?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

He looks like such a nice guy.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

He looks like a friendly chap. A friendly young chap.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

He looks at the guy that like an Indian auntie shows some poor girl, and the girl's like, I don't know about this. Right? And then they're like, no, no, no. I he runs semi-analysis, and she's like, a newsletter. And then you go to the the after.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

The after.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Look at this man with these glasses. That guy runs semi-analysis.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

Hey he owns celly analysis Selly analysis? Semi-analysis.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

We can fix that in the post.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Nah. Dude, I'm leaving it all in. I've had half a glass of wine.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Going crazy. Look at Dylan, he looks great there. That was all you, Jason. You want to say more?

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Yeah. Shout out, Michelle. If you know, you know.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

I can't, you know, I can't I can't take credit for the past year.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

What a good before and after. We need to, we need to do this as a service.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Like, have

Jason would like to style @tsszl

SPEAKER_01 21:48

a few hands.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Yeah, I mean I I want to style Rune.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Maybe after starting from nothing. I think after the IPO, I want to just like style a bunch of my uh you know my I think Rune dresses pretty well.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

He loves APC, which is I think one of the best brands out there here. It's entry level good though. Yeah. Pretty good, I would say. Honestly, for San Francisco, I would say it's even medium great.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

Yeah, I mean I I feel like every every time I've seen Rune in the last few months, like, I think he's pretty good. Listen, I can't believe he's hot, you know. Shout out Twitter. Dude, he's hot. That's the hottest black woman I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

Leave that in. Anyway. There's also um uh Jason, you posted about Dylan uh earlier in the year. You're like missing the homies, Dylan come to New York one more time so he can shop. And then you've got him in the baggy pants.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Yeah, look at that.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

That was that was in Korea, a changed man.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

You know, a newfound swagger found in a pair of baggy pants.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Dylan can dress and he can also dance. He can. You know, he has motion now.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

He doesn't move just through the shoulders, and that's how you know it's real.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah, he's a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

Mind in mind if a mind if a chip boy get a little motion. Little chip boy. He's a spreadsheet man, that's what he is. He's a gold code man. Get that man onto codex. Um anyway, chip not taking sides here. I mean I am. He's taking a side, he knows. He's taking sides, and so am I. So am I. He should change.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

That's what fashion's all about. It's picking something.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

Yeah, yeah. He's making a decision.

unknown 23:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:25

It's fucking as easy as that.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

You have to get up and you have to choose something, but you have to own it, you know. I don't know, I guess I'm picking these things that I've been wearing all the time.

Are those that have a uniform unfashionable?

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Question. Do you feel like those who have a uniform are unfashionable?

SPEAKER_00 23:38

No, I think if it's a great uniform where the pants look good, they're tailored, or you know, at least intentionally picked, everything kind of flows together. Like you were intentional about it, like you chose what you wanted to say, even if it's a uniform, I think that's empowering.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

You just chose once. You just had to choose.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

You choose once really well. I believe in that. Like I think you should pick like five, or you know, I I'm a woman, so I pick a lot. Like, you know, like five really good bottoms and then like a few really good tops, and just like interchange them, make sure everything flows well. Like um, you can pick like a specific piece that you really want to stand out.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

I have so many jokes I can't tell. I mean, I I basically have one uniform.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

You do just wear skins, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

A tight shirt and a tight pant. I think you would look so good in some like looser fit pants. Really? Yeah. I'm down. What's your waist size? 30? 30. Can I put you in a pair of pants after the show?

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Sick.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Can we put a chain on you?

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Fuck, it's the pants are at the office.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

That's alright. A chain? I you know, I used to I used to a gold chain. I feel like a silver chain is better for my for my skin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't do gold.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

We had this whole conversation with it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Well, that's actually that's another thing with style, right? I wear a silver watch rather than a gold watch. Skin tone, right? If you're pale, you wear silver. If you are not so pale, you wear gold.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Yeah. Open an eye to color match you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Image Gen 2. Image Gen 2. Oh, now available. Get it in, dude. Talk the book, talk the book. Uh, speaking of talking the book, superpower.com, uh, you know, we've talking about making choices. Make choice, make it make a good choice for your preventative health. Why not? $199 a year, you can get a full blood panel. Uh, it's it is it's beyond uh a full blood panel. You can get all the cool ratios given to you if you want to figure out like I think I think um I should sign up. Can you like set me up with Max? Yeah, I'll give you code. Yeah. I like you I'll give I'll give it to you for free. You you'll give me a code for free? Yeah, I I have one. I'll give it to you. For friends, friends of the show. Friends of the show. Yeah, yeah, not 10%, you can get it for fucking free. Oh saying it in the pod, believing that in. It's the create. Wait, what else can I what else can I get from superpower? Oh, well, I mean, hey, hey, big let's let's let's settle down here. Uh we'll we'll speak about it after the show. But yeah, um, so last time I took a superpower test, I had a terrible, terrible sleep. Um my testosterone to estrogen ratio was off.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Fuck!

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Wait, does that mean that it means my testosterone was slightly lower than it usually would be. But it was still pretty high. Just saying, I'm not gonna give you the number. Four figures or three figures. Four figures, nice. Even my normal uh testosterone range is is in the three figures. Thank God, can you imagine? Yeah, I know. Well that'd be that'd be that'd be crazy. But it is it is close to it is close to four figures. Close-ish.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Your male to male transition, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

I I am, I'm I'm becoming more male. It's why my hairline's receding. Testosterone is is gender affirming care.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Oh that's what I'm saying. It's literally male to male transitioning.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Me going to Turkey to get a fucking, you know, beer transplant is gender-affirming care. I just want I didn't consider this.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

So if I took steroids, like I'd just be like affirming my Okay, fuck yeah. Is peptides the same? Depends on what peptides. Because I mean, yeah, yeah. Because I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, it's funny, I'm kind of still on the superpower ad read, which is kind of insane that they that they're getting this much value um out of the banter.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Message me directly, Max.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I can I I can literally I can I can see what it's okay, it's okay. Um but basically with this sort of thing, uh, as far as I know, the peptides, you know, they don't there's there's no reliable peptide to to build muscle yet. Yet. So we'll see. Um and of course, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

You can't just take a pill to build muscles yet?

SPEAKER_03 27:28

That's steroids, do you?

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Oh, thank god. Something exists from me, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

The answer is testosterone, but that messes you up, dude. My testosterone is really high once and it ruined my life. Oh really?

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Yeah, yeah, it can. It can. And superpower can keep you in check. That's the good thing about it, right? I mean, again, they get the care that billionaires get for $199. Anyway. And cut.

unknown 27:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

And that's it. Okay. Moving on here, I wanted to bring up uh the low status tweet. Uh the low status tweet. Every tweet is low status.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

You're on Twitter. Fuck off, man. That's my whole life. I got 40,000 tweets. You think I fucking think is high status? You're not posting like 50 times a day.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Honestly, tweeting is like smoking a cigarette. You just have to get one in some table.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

I I tweeted so much yesterday. Like, just I was just home. How many tweets? How many tweets? I probably I mean, like, are we including comments as tweets? Yeah. Um, I probably tweeted yesterday. I probably would have tweeted around like maybe 70 times. Fair few.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Pretty good, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Yeah. Hey, I think it converted. I had fun. That's the main thing. It's the friends that we make along the way. Um, but this particular tweet, this was from early April. It sort of did the rounds because everybody was quote tweeting it, but

Dressing well in SF is not low status

SPEAKER_03 28:41

it says, um, this was ending with Allie. Says, again, men in SF wonder why they struggle to find girlfriends. And it's a screenshot of a text thread that says, Unfortunately for you, SF Tech Bros won't give a shit. Dressing well is low status in SF. And of course, this brought a bunch of controversy. Um, probably a little bit rage baity. All good. Uh that kind of happens. And it sort of, you know, it did this nice sort of like um it it it it brought everybody together. It brought the girlies together, like our friend Kate Daneker. Awesome. It's a lot of words that tell me that you're a loser.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

The fact that you think about status at all.

unknown 29:20

True.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

True, true.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

There's a lot of there's a lot of this in SF. Yeah, you win the rat race, still a rat. Hey, he's fucking he's spitting fire. He really is spitting straight fire, and he's not even looking at the camera. I'm looking at the camera. Camera one, camera two. Nobody innovates like mods. Innovates at the production level. Yeah, this was Jason's idea.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

I mean, that's kind of the thing. It's like because people are actually so status-obsessed here, they will preclude themselves from participating in all of the fun that comes with like thinking about fashion and like expressing yourself in it. Because they're always like, what if you know, what if you make the wrong choice? What if whatever? It's like this like mind virus versus like if you truly don't care and you're just trying to bring more beauty into the world.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Even like I feel like seven, eight, nine years ago, like being jacked was like seen as low satisfied. It's like, oh like I'm so intellectual. My the only role of my body is to bring my fucking head from room to room, but now it's cool to like be intelligent and jacked. And I'm sure in like you know, six more years it'll be cool to be smart, jacked, and well dressed.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Yeah. I mean, we're just we're we're adding adding them one by one, adding them one by one. Don't mind if I do.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

What's next? Music taste?

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Well, but that goes back to this idea of like, you know, clothing is the only form of art that you have to disclose your preferences, right? You'll you'll you you could never listen to music I listen to, but you have to look at me, you have to talk to me, and you have to see what I'm wearing and how I smell. So just like figure out like the basic senses that you sort of like submit others to, yeah, and then figure it out from there.

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Yeah, I think I mean this this kind of makes sense. I mean, uh our friend Kate Daneker, she knows. She dresses very well, Kate. Yeah. Have you met Kate before? Yeah, you met Kate. She's just and so she's just like quo-tweeted.

@katedeyneka reaction

SPEAKER_03 31:09

She's like Tech Bros in SF dressing well as a status, also tech bros in SF. In AI era, taste is all that matters. And she's got a bunch of selfies of herself looking great. Looking great if we do say so ourselves. Have you seen this, Jason? Also, I just had a thought. I want to check to see if our DoorDash driver is here, and I'm gonna leave it all in. We ordered food beforehand.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

In the meantime, I'll show you guys my outfit. Obviously, the slippers are because we are indoors, but this is my dress.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

Okay, I think we're safe. Honestly, what I really wanted to do was actually just check that the camera was still going because I have like total PTSD from yesterday. Basically, what people don't know is that we recorded an entire thing yesterday, and my ass, again, I've already said this, but my ass just um fucked up, lost the whole thing. It happens. This is uh this is how it is. Okay, to basically to basically wrap here, um I want to wrap with

@Grimezsz reaction + forcing culture and style

SPEAKER_03 32:00

a tweet from Grimes. Because, you know, she's sort of thinking about how we fix this, that sort of thing. So she said, back in October last year, she said, someone said to me that the way to import 40,000 art hose to SF to teach engineers love and thus save humankind would be to open an elite fashion school. Considering the material science infrastructure, this is actually the obvious path forward for fashion. So obviously, you know, she's using fashion as a medium, but I mean, uh even even the people that I talk to, especially recently, right? I mean, and they they're sort of like thinking of it as like culture at large. I kind of have a hot take on culture. I think I think uh if you try hard to make culture like it, it ends up being a bit cringe. Like like culture is just it's something that kind of just happens.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Yeah, like it kind of has happened. Imagine bringing these 40,000 girls over as prisoners.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

I think you gotta try hard. I don't think it's crazy. What would you like how would you how would you do that? Rocky once said, if you try to be too cool, you're gonna freeze to death. You know, you just fucking like like what would you what would you do then? I mean, I don't know about the art hose. I feel like I thought about this last night. It's kind of like introducing like 40,000 snakes to get rid of the rat problem.

unknown 33:08

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

You know, if you're gonna fuck up the ecosystem in a way that's like not well understood, but I mean I I do think Yeah, but I did I do think it's important to sort of you try you you do have to try to to make culture happen. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

I feel like what about this?

SPEAKER_02 33:22

Like if I start an art gallery, like I have to fucking try. I can't just be like, oh, like here it is, fuck it. Yeah. Come to my show.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Like, I mean, I I think what it was it was a thing from um it was a thing from I I think the Collisons have a grant for this, right? Where it's like New aesthetics. Is it new aesthetics? New aesthetics. And so this is like I'm I'm not sure that you can just like will new aesthetics into the world by just being like, cool, I want a new aesthetic. Like, let's throw a bunch of money at bringing about a new aesthetic. Like they kind of just happen. They kind of just happen and like we kind of see that after the fact, right? And I feel like it is the same.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

I feel like if you study art history, it's always been like any new aesthetic comes as a response to something that's happening politically in the real world. Like impressionism comes after, like, you know, brutalism comes from the war.

SPEAKER_03 34:07

Like, like, yeah, exactly. This is this is like I totally agree. Totally agree. This is like actually what I'm saying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

I mean, and maybe in another way, it's like the the culture here is like so sterile, there's something to respond to.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

But that's not true. That is something in itself, that's like something to stand against. No, no, no, but it's like even just like that's the thing, because everything here is so sterile, what I find myself gravitating to whenever I put together an outfit is like literally anything you do that is more than just like something lazy and low effort is still a statement.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

I don't think their immune system can handle it.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

No, but they but they're they actually love it though, because then when you show up, everyone's complimenting your outfit or like wow, this looks great, whatever. I actually think that it works, and I think that if we have like a broader scope definition of like what it means to be technical and what hardware encompasses, and we included fashion in that.

How does one become more fashionable?

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Some okay, if someone likes your outfit, they go, Oh, how do I become more stylish? How do I become more fashionable? What do you say?

SPEAKER_00 35:01

I would say lean into the things that you like and then like double down, triple down on emphasizing just one thing about it. So if you really like silver jewelry, get really big pieces, get a lot of styles of pieces, like just double down, triple down, and like make it an obvious fact about you.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

If you really like that's the most autism, hyperfixation. I guess it may I guess that works in San Francisco. I was like, yeah, I do like trains. I'm gonna buy a thousand trains.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Start wearing the trains. Matter of fact, put them out, make them a belt if you want. Like pick something. Well, I still think that for basic advice, if you're giving someone who's like not an expert at all, or like not even, you know, not an expert, but like not someone who's done it a lot and has, you know, eaten a lot, then what do you say?

SPEAKER_03 35:49

It's kind of true. I mean, it's like like when I'm when I'm teaching people how to play jazz music for the first time, if they have an inkling of like musical sense, like when it comes to improvisation, the first thing I do is like, okay, here's the pentatonic scale. Here's the minor pentatonic scale, play over so what? Only using the minor pentatonic scale. Yeah, it's like you know it's broad enough. It's broad enough, and but it but it's like at least it gives them it also gives them the feeling that that it's like, okay, cool, this works, right? Like I know that the pentatonic I know that D minor pentatonic works over D minor seven. I mean And like people feel good when that happens, when they find something that works. Yeah. Then you can start adding on stuff. I I get it, I get it. I gotta like use my own little autistic framing for it.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

But what do you tell Dylan? Because I haven't done this shit before, but like you have. You transform someone.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

I mean, I think the thing is that okay, you know, when someone says, hey Jason, like how do I get a job in tech? How do I build something? Right? What technology should I use?

SPEAKER_00 36:41

How do I do fashion better though? Specifically.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

I'm using the analogy of like, I think the answer anyone would give is like just you just have to go build something. Like don't tell me you want to learn a technology, like solve a problem. And literally what I just did was I I just made him put on anything he like touched. He will be like, I don't know if this is not this, I don't know if this is me. No, no, no. Go go wear it. Go wear it and walk around. Okay, okay, maybe that doesn't work. Why do you not don't think that works? Okay, try something on. But you have to like put the clothes on. You have to you have to like actually go into a store, right? You you'll never be able to figure it out like looking at pictures. Like me looking at the scales is never gonna let me play the music. You have to you have to like hold the instrument and like try to make sounds.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Yeah, this is true.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

In the same way that you have to like build an app. You're not gonna be like, oh yeah, like if someone just said, can you teach me music theory? Yeah, you you like I actually told people not to learn music theory. In service of what? Like, I'm not gonna be like, oh, here's here's like rules on layering and here's color theory. Yeah, I think I think I think um put it on every day.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

And try it out. And if you like it, double down.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

This is this is true though. I mean, even even even when I taught myself how to code, like I dep I definitely wasted a good amount of time just like doing like leak code style problems in the very beginning. And it's like, okay, that would serve me for a job interview, but yeah, totally if you build it like a weather app, you learn like way more. That's right. And it is the same thing. It's the same thing, yeah. Like I think that's a I think it's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

And people like hate putting shit on. They're like, they think they're like bothering the associates.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

I know, right? They think that they're they're inconveniencing others.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

The associates will tell you that too, especially if you go into a high-end place. It's like they'll they'll be like, they'll be bringing you shit. I mean, granted, they'd be pretty pissed if you don't buy anything.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

But like, well, all I have to say is instead of saying like, oh, I can't afford this or whatever, just like, I don't think I like the style, and then just leave. That's it, that's the trick, you know. You let you like a bracelet, you find those nine thousand dollars. I don't think it's like my style.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

I do think that we live in an era where it's easier than ever to find like your kind of like vibe, like to find what resonates the most with you and experiment with that.

unknown 38:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:48

GPD image 2.0. Put it put a put a selfie in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Yeah, man. People people want fashion because they want to fit and not because they want to stand out and like you know, you're allowed to just be recommended the the modal style, you know.

SPEAKER_03 39:02

Yeah, yeah. That's why I wear um uh skims and tight-fitting t-shirts. So I can stand out.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

No, you have to double triple down. I stand by what I say.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

I create you an outfit, uh, everyone will like a white t-shirt, black pants, you know. Yeah, you don't need to fucking be an artist, you just gotta like look better.

Just look better

SPEAKER_03 39:20

And that's the takeaway from today's Morts episode. Fucking look better.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

You don't need to be an artist, just try.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

If you want to taste, eat, right? Yeah, hygiene and grooming go so much further than clothing. And for clothing, just fucking uh put it on. Get a haircut, go to the gym, put it on.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Body is the outfit. Body is the outfit, try it out. A lot of things that people are learning from this episode of Mots. It's usually the other way around. Like usually I just tell people how to feel. Now I'm telling now we're telling them what to do. We're fucking progressing here. Uh anything else? Any any any closing thoughts? I'm not gonna I'm not gonna cut out that silence, by the way. I'm gonna I'm gonna.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

I think you know, people have always made their vices historically part of the outfit. Like I think a cigarette is always cunky, a jewel. I dare to say a jewel during its age.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

Oh, because yeah, Ice India Oh, my India trip.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Talking about yesterday, Valentina was uh talked about her India trip and how she how she found out that there were a lot of smoke in the airports there. Yeah, we've we we talked a lot about this. Yeah, like accessories. I mean I consider my I consider my giant orange chungus phone to be a bit of an accessory. I hold it now. You know, go goes against my black orange, is this my favorite colour?

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Alright, I think putting things on your hardware that you wear, like for instance, there's like these aura ring casings that you can get custom made on Etsy. It is.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

You just actually have you hardware by Tiffany. What?

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Yeah, like what like the zippers, the zippers and the rivets on your clothing, or like a buckle, you call it hardware, silver hardware.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

The Levi's copper rivets, that was hardware. Wow.

unknown 41:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

What do you think the word hardware came from?

SPEAKER_00 41:09

I thought I I thought.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

This is this is software.

SPEAKER_03 41:13

Software.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Right, it's soft, it's cashmere, then the hardware is like a rivet, you know?

SPEAKER_03 41:19

Like the zippers is my entire life is a lie. But that's okay. I'm here to learn too. I'm sitting my wide ass down and I'm learning. Don't mind if I do. I think on that note, good place to wrap up. You guys have been listening to another episode of Members of Technical Stuff. We'll go ahead and see you on the timeline again real soon.