🚨 Emergency Pod 🚨 RFK Announces Peptide Reclassification

RFK announces peptide reclassification!
What does this all mean? Will the technology brothers finally be able to source peptides not of the sketchy Chinese kind? Is this legalization or a different thing? Are the technology brothers going too far with peptides?
@maxmarchione and I covered all of this and more.

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Transcript

RFK announce peptide reclassification again

SPEAKER_02 0:00

You're listening to an emergency episode of Members of Technical Stuff. I'm here once again in the Superpower Office with Max Marcioni, the founder of said company. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

It's good to have you back here, man. You're the like honorary SF Aussie. So we we we we we complete the mafia when you're here.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

I hey, you know, uh I think that's actually a great way to put it. Um, just so that people know, the security actually just let me up even without you. Did you know that? Oh no. You're letting anyone up here. It's kind of a drive by it.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Yeah, they hear the accent and it's like, oh, we we know which company you belong at. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

It's not, I mean, they didn't they didn't see the hoodie, it's just like I could be anybody. Anyway, the reason why we're here today, uh, we're gonna be answering some questions. But basically, what has happened is finally, you know, after I say finally, it's only really been a few months of sort of talking about this thing, but the the noise has grown louder and louder. But uh Secretary Kennedy, so RFK Junior has come out today and essentially announced the reclassification of peptides, right? Or a select amount of peptides from category one to category two, no?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Announcing that they're going to reclassify them. Yes. They haven't actually reclassified them yet. That's a good clarification because I was under the impression that this is it. Everyone is reacting like this is it. Even I was so the the the irony of this is the the markets are going bonkers, Twitter's going bonkers. But the reality is this is like a more formal version of what he said on Joe Rogan's podcast, which we're gonna reclassify. No, the difference is there's a date he's put out there. Yeah. I think it was 23rd of July when the FDA is meeting to discuss the peptides, and he named the specific peptides. He did, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Yes, yes, yes. See, I mean it even got me because I figured, oh, well, there's been so much talk. Again, he and like essentially announced or did a did a quasi-announcement on the Joe Rogan podcast, thank you, podcasting, by the way, where all uh policy will be announced going forward. We're waiting, we're waiting for uh for government policy to be announced on the Mots pod. That's how you know why we'll have made it.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Um I love this RFK post because you opened as if it's an announcement. Today, it's like, what is today?

@SecKennedy reaction

SPEAKER_02 2:06

So, yeah, let's actually let's you know what let's actually read the post because we can set this up and then we can get into essentially some FAQs, right? Because I think this has definitely triggered FAQs. It's triggered the hymns stock. So congrats if you hold hymns. Uh not financial advice, by the way, um, but congrats if you happen to be holding hymns beforehand. Well, you've had a great day, haven't you? And you know, it's kind of the irony is uh nothing's happened yet. But anyway, getting into this post here. So Secretary Kennedy says today at 1112 a.m. Pacific time, he says, today we took long overdue action to restore science, accountability, and the rule of law. In September 2023, the Biden FDA pushed a number of peptides into Category 2, bulk drug substances that raise significant safety risks, driving a dangerous black market that puts Americans at risk. Now, after nominators with Drew 12 peptides, the FDA will remove them from Category 2 and will bring them to PCAC at its next two meetings beginning in July, where independent experts will rigorously evaluate each substance on its scientific merits using full clinical, pharmacological, and safety evidence. So then he goes and actually lists uh the the the the the compounds that will be up for reclassification. And so as follows BPC157, thymosin beta 4 fragment, uh epithalon. Epithalon. Epithalon, okay, I've never seen that one. G H K C U. MOTS T. Let's fucking go. There we go. The MOS podcast is the feature. Mots mentioned. Mods mentioned. Okay. Uh uh DSIP, uh dihexaacetate, uh, Ibutamorin mesylate. Melot melanotan too. Wow. The the bros will be happy with that one. KPV, Semax, uh Catholicin. Cathol Oh wow, never seen that one.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

There are a handful here that people don't talk about, hardly used. Yeah. And then they left some that people talk about often and used. Uh they left their most NAPA 1 off the list. Okay, interesting. We've got like melanotan. Guys, you can tan now. Yeah. But the peptide that's approved in 35 plus companies and has lots of clinical research is not on the list.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Yeah. Because melanotan is like kind of like like the sides are kind of bad.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

The sides are like kind of horrible.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

For melanotan. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

You become nauseous and horny.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, not for me. Uh each to their own, each to their own. This is not medical advice, there's not wellness advice either.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Uh and so I w I wish I'd learned to say not financial advice, not medical advice, not wellness advice. Before I spent several hundred thousand dollars on legal fees. We live and we learn.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

It happens, it happens. You know, I mean I think you know, uh uh what is it? What is what is the saying? It's like uh, you know, uh hurt the wallet, hurt uh calm the mind, or something. Is that it?

SPEAKER_00 4:47

I don't know. I don't like that saying.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Uh moving on. Uh so he rounds off this post, he says, This action begins to restore regulated access and will immediately begin shifting demand away from the black market. We will follow the science, enforce the law, and deliver the clarity patients, providers, and pharmacies deserve. Ben Kennedy's like, this is like winning the World Cup for it's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

All the like VCs are reaching out, being like, Oh, I heard you're launching peptides. I'm like, guys, this RFK announcement is nothing new. Everyone's been talking about this for months. But we can pretend it's something new, right? Yes. Let's pretend this is the World Cup moment. Yeah, yeah, it got me. I was like, okay, this is. You can now officially announce anything, even if you're the government. Should have been a launch movement. You can launch the same thing five times. The government's picking up, they're catching up.

unknown 5:38

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, taking up to deliver value.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Okay. So I think um a cool thing, so so a cool thing here, uh, so you actually posted this a few hours ago as of time of recording. So it was at 2.03 pm. So you quite tweeted and he said, some might know that we've been talking about this upcoming reclassification for a while. Fact check true. Uh now that day has come, I am happy to answer any questions. AMA below. And you know, we say now that that day has come, now that the announcement has to come. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Yeah, it's like second, third, fourth announcement. Exactly. The most important one.

What peptides are we likely to see be legalized?

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Cool. So let's actually get into a few of these questions because again, we said they'd be answered. Uh first one, what peptides are likely to are likely to see be legalized? Now, of course, that's kind of like that that feels a bit loaded, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:27

But Well, I I think there's the the 12 that RFK mentioned, right? Yes. And they're the obvious ones to say. But I think the the interesting question is what are the ones that he didn't mention that that maybe will be introduced to that list?

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

And I think CLank will likely be introduced. I think C Max is on the link. CLank is kind of similar. I think um Pinelon will likely be introduced. Cubamin has been talking about that for several years. Yeah. That's similar to Epitalon. They're both bioregulators, they both target sleep. Um they both can be delivered orally as well without an injection. And then I think the most now for one is kind of the obvious candidate that's not on the list. Um now, the there are several peptides that are on the list that are very popular. CJC and I permorelin being the obvious ones. I think it's less likely that we'll see them on the list initially because the growth hormone secretogogues likely have the highest cancer risk.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

And we have two growth hormone secretogogues that are already approved, semorelin and tesamorelin. So I think the FDA stance will be just use the ones that have been FDA approved in the past and now legal for compounding.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Yeah, and a bodybuilder would be like, just take GH. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

I'm saying that. He's not saying that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Not medical advice.

Could this affect what peptides are banned or approved by WADA?

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, going down the list here, uh, we'll leave this one till last, actually. Uh, let's see. Could this affect what peptides will be approved or banned by water? That's an interesting one.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Um, so water's the World Anti-Doping Association. Uh uh, this guy just takes that as given factual knowledge. Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um Thank you for the clarification, appreciate it. I don't I I don't think this will have a short-term effect on it. I do think some of these in the medium term could be allowed by water. For example, epitholum, which improves sleep, could be allowed, right? There are many things that improve sleep that are allowed by water.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Um something like BPC157, I think, is maybe less likely to be approved by water, but creatine's approved. Yep. Uh leucine and BCAAs are approved. You could argue that's somewhat similar. So we have to see. I think for some things, potentially, um, for some others, TBD. Cool.

Are peptides bigger than AI?

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Uh let's see, let's see. Are peptides bigger than AI? Um pretty bad. Getting all the buzzwords in there.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Yeah, yeah, I know. Um, peptides and AI. You're gonna title this podcast. Peptides and AI. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The future for humankind. Hate everybody. Um so look, if we look at the revenue that last year came from peptides versus the revenue that last year came from AI, peptides were did more revenue than AI. Wow. Right? If we look at what the revenue is gonna be this year, AI will likely do more revenue than peptides. If we look, if we fast forward a few years, AI will likely far outstrip peptides. Yeah. Right? Like, look, I think peptides are a very important theme. Um, but uh there's no theme that's incomparable to what happens when like humans create intelligence. Yes.

Do you think it’s a one-off reclassification or will there be a continuous review of peptides from now on?

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Um cool, cool. Going down the list here, there's a couple, there's a couple uh superpower specific that I want to actually leave till last. Um there was one good one that I found. Let's see, that actually we didn't okay, here's one. So it says, Do you think it's a one-off reclassification, or will there be a continuous review of peptides from now on?

SPEAKER_00 9:35

I think we'll almost certainly get a continuous review.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Particularly if these become legal for compounding and people start to put together data dossiers that can be submitted to the FDA, right? What we say after we have an FDA-approved drug is we say we have phase four trials, which is structured collection of real-world evidence. And that uh determines the future for that compound and how we think about that class of compounds broadly. Um that wasn't really possible for these peptides because they could not be legally marketed or legally compounded. Therefore, it was very hard to research them without performing a clinical trial. And clinical trials are extremely expensive. And now it's gonna be easier to research these without performing a clinical trial, which makes it possible to get data, and the FDA can continue to review that data in these peptides. And if it's promising for these peptides, they might uh logically extrapolate to say that it's likely gonna be interesting for some other peptides that have similar kind of risk and efficacy signals. For sure. So yeah, I think this is like the tip of the spear, and we're gonna see many more peptide therapeutics come.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

Makes sense, makes sense. I think it's um probably important to add, because you know, I think the RFK mentioned the uh reclassification, or at least the 2023 classification. I think something that we've spoken about before on mods is actually the fact that the reason it's uh that's even that it's even being talked about now is is because of uh GLP1s. Is that probably fair to say?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

That that's a big part of it. Yeah. I think GLP1s got the broad consumer interested. Yeah. And when the broad consumer got interested, uh then the government doesn't ignore the fact that probably over a million Americans now has injected a non-GLP one peptide.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Yeah. I mean, do you think do you think it even like announcement or announcements like this would even have as much traction as it as it does if GLP ones hadn't sort of come of age over the last couple of years? Because otherwise it's just kind of like, cool, yeah, we're just reversing biodineur policy or whatever. Um and it's probably not even announced now.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Yeah, I don't think so because GLP1s made injection normal.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

And that meant more people tried these peptides. Um we have multiple themes at the same time, right? We have um AI providing people access to information. We have kind of this looks maxing theme or this let's call it imperative on people trying to be better and improve. We have health and wellness being this kind of emerging mega category. Yeah. Um if we even just look at general consumer health and wellness is all the rage. And then we have GLP ones being both a peptide and an injection, normalizing injection. So all of these coming together, I think, make peptides what what they are.

Should I get bloodwork before starting a peptide protocol?

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Totally, totally. Here's an interesting one. Um, and we're starting to sort of get into into into territory that is, again, definitely not medical advice, right? I mean, it'd be the same thing if I'm at, you know, me as a gym bro, start sort of like talking about steroids lazare, right? One, it's because I think it's funny, but two, I don't, I don't I would not suggest them at all. But this question goes into uh should I get blood work before starting a peptide protocol?

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Uh so I I think you should get blood work generally because a lot of people have things going wrong, particularly if you're trying to optimize your health. It's very hard to optimize if you're in the dark. Like someone might might be like, I'm gonna pump SS31 for energy, and I'm like, Yeah, maybe, but you could just get blood work and see your vitamin D's low and your testosterone's low. Yes. And you have a bunch of other things going wrong. So before saying, Oh, I'm gonna solve my problem with a peptide, yeah. Say, let's actually see what the problem is. Yes. Um, I think part of what the question's getting at though is will the blood work guide how you take peptides? And I think for certain peptides it can. For example, I'd never recommend uh someone uh or suggest someone explore taking semeralin, uh, or tesemeralin, CJC, or IPA before they've seen the IGF-1 levels. Yeah, yeah. Um and we can apply this to some other peptides as well. That said, for many of these peptides, blood work isn't going to be awfully helpful yet. Yep. Because we don't have the biomarker that is specifically impacted by that peptide.

What does this mean for @superpower? Will you be the first on the market for peptides?

SPEAKER_02 13:18

Sure, yeah, sure, sure. Makes sense, makes sense, cool. And I think last couple here, they're because they start to get into superpower specifically, right? And so this one asks, uh, what does this mean for superpower? Will you try to be the first on the market for peptides? Pretty simply put.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Uh the the the first legal company on the market, yes. It was a big gray market, right? Yeah, that's right, that's right. Yes, we'll wait to go live the the kind of day the FDA goes live.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Yes, yes, yes. And of course, that's like a pretty, pretty important distinction. And I mean, you know, for those that are pro this reclassification, which I am, by the way, you know, I would definitely say that I'm pro this reclassification, I think, when it comes to this sort of thing, even myself, somebody who is considered to be, and you know, is probably more known as being a little bit more risk-averse when it comes to these sorts of things, but even even I can recognize that uh having compounding pharmacies dealing with this sort of stuff, because people are gonna take it anyway. Again, Martin Srale will say something like you can actually arrest the genie, right? Which was his line, right? It's like genies are the bottle, you can arrest the genie.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

I mean, oh Martin wants a war on peptides, you know. What a great use of taxpayer money. Yeah, let's go after these compounds that haven't been shown to harm anyone, and many people are saying you're helping them, let's use taxpayer money to have a war on peptides.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Yeah, so the incentives are just not there.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

And I'm just like, no, it's like obviously not the right decision, right? Like, uh and and and therefore, if we actually want to minimize net harm, the decision it seems like the FDA is going to make, which is legalizing them for compounding, is a decision which helps remove the grey market. Yeah, the grey market's harmful because it lacks transparency and regulation. The white market is certainly less harmful.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Yep, for sure, for sure. And this is this is where this is where I land too. So there you go, Mott's host taking a position on a thing. Wow. There we go.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Okay, I think there's the market's gonna move based on that position. Don't mind if I do. Gosh, yeah, yeah. Podcasts are moving markets. When does Mark me attribute to what you say? Overfit.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

We're like the Wall Street Journal uh daily updates.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

It all starts with tech, bro.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

It's funny, yeah. We were just talking about this macro being a nerd snipe topic. I do think, you know, I that that's an episode for another day, but uh gosh, when when when tech bros start looking at markets, um you get some cool takes. Uh one would call overfitting, right? If we use some machine learning language. But anyway, anyway, uh, there was one more that I wanted to get to here just before we finish up here. Um, let's see, let's see. Honestly. Oh, here we go. This was the one that I was looking for. This is the one that I was looking for.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

They're marking out my peptide stack. No, actually, no.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Uh, but I can get to that one if you want to answer that.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

I don't mind, yeah.

How will you compete with $HIMS?

SPEAKER_02 15:55

So first of all, first of all, um, there's one says, how will you compete with hims? Because we've talked, we've talked about superpower getting in the market once it's legal to do so. And so, you know, the next question is how would you compete with somebody like a hymns?

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Yeah, I I don't think of it as like us versus him, zero sum competing, right? Yep. Like we go after slightly different customers, we have different brands, we have a different platform. The market's massive. So I love himself, I think hims is going to do really well. Yep. I love us a bit more than I love himself. I think we're we're either incredibly well. Wow. I I I want to do better better than hims, obviously. Yes, yes, yes. And I think we're in a good position to do well off the back of the peptide trend. So I don't see it as like zero sum competition.

What’s your stack?

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Cool, cool. And then I think, yes, like you mentioned, good place to wrap up is your stack. Is your stack.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Okay. Um, well, what what I what I not medical advice. Yeah. I'll say that three times. JavaScript upon versus. Not recommended. Um what what I have done and used to do in the past was one milligram of redotrutide a week, which is the GLP3. Um now I'll do tazepatide instead. Um and that was largely to increase overall quality of life by not making me as food obsessed, not making me as distracted, not making me as hungry all the time. Yeah. Right? I actually think a microdose, even if you're not trying to lose weight for me was great because I didn't have to think about food and I could just sit there and be focused. It was like a focused drug. Um I also felt less inflamed and higher energy because my metabolism was better, my insulin sensitivity was a little bit better. The second is thymosin alpha 1 as needed. I don't get sick anymore because I'll take thimosin alpha 1 before I'm going to get sick. Um the next is BBC 157. If I sprain an ankle, I take it. I find it really helps me. I've had many, many injuries throughout my life. Um pre versus post-BBC157. I noticed a big difference. Um the third is the third is epitalon, um, which I still do reasonably regularly, just uh capsules. I'll take it night before sleep, and then I'll do pinelon for a similar reason. Yeah, and look, I've experimented with most of these. Um I I just don't think the the kind of risk reward for me right now stacks up for the others on the list. Yep, yeah. It might at another point in time, maybe there'll come a time when I'm 40 and I find my mitochondrial function is declining and there's no other therapeutic for it. Nessa 31 and MOTC is like great. Yep, yeah. Right now I don't find that's the case.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean when I'm like 45, I'll be on like TRT.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

So when we're 45, who knows? Yeah, exactly, exactly.

The tech bros are taking it too far

SPEAKER_02 18:20

But no, I I think the I think the important point there as well, and again, this is sort of um it's it's also the points that I like to hammer home again, you know, because again, the risk-averse guy here, uh, is is the words as needed. Yeah. As needed, right? It's not as if you're always on thimosin, you're not always on BPC. I think that is the, you know, that that's the thing that I I hope that some technology brothers are maybe taking away from you know somebody that somebody that is that is familiar with the space, right? It's like, okay, uh somebody who's very, very pro-peptides, but they're still gonna be, you know, it's not just like, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna be on everything all the time and I'm gonna post about it.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

The tech bros have gone way too far with that. Like, I'm like I'm very very, very pro-peptide. Yeah. I think this kind of category of medicine is gonna be a huge part of the future. And I don't think tech bros should be pumping 10 peptides every single day. Right. The the ROI isn't there. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Totally. I mean, it's starting to get like reminiscent of like just just like, oh yeah, you're gonna be on all the growth hormones and greetagogs. Let me let me suggest to you a little thing called GH. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

And look, fast forward 10 years, we might see more risk and more efficacy data that does support a massive stack every day. But I think in the absence of that, when the benefit is really high, great. Right? When we have a peptide that has been more research, great. Yeah. But to be stacking dozens of things before we have that research, and before you have a really acute need for the thing, I don't think is awfully rational.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Yep. I think it's a I think it's a good point. I think it's a sensible point to wrap this up. And again, we you can sort of keep an eye out because we'll always be making emergency pods when RFK next announces this. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

How many announcements between now and July? I know, I know. I wonder whether he he writes his announcements or whether they have like a copywriting team.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

I think either that or he's just like ultra long hymns.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

It was a very um, it was a very like Twitter native announcement. He wrote it pretty well. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Left all the M dashes in, which sus. Yeah. Claude, write me a Twitter announcement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before they get designated a supply chain. Okay, I think that's a good place to wrap. You've been listening to another emergency episode of Members of Technical Staff. We'll go ahead and see you on the timeline again real soon.